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brushbuster  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2015 2:55:19 PM(UTC)


What are you guys using for graphs? I was thinking of getting something when i go on my trip.

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MagicPaddler  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2015 6:18:22 PM(UTC)


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I assume you mean maps.  I use Fisher or McKenzie or some I print myself. 

brushbuster  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, July 7, 2015 8:25:17 PM(UTC)


I am sorry I should've been more specific. Does anyone bring electronics for findng fish and structure? I have a sidewinder but I am interested in something much more compact that uses AA's. I was thinking it might be nice to locate bottom structure, and mark it with my GPS and find bait fish locals.
MagicPaddler  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, July 8, 2015 6:26:52 AM(UTC)


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Many people bring fish detectors on trips.  My advice for what detector to buy would be keep it simple.  The non color units consume less power. The easiest way to mount the transducer to shoot through the hull is with duct seal from the electrical department of the hardware store.

 

More battery info than you want.

http://www.bwca.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=forum.thread&threadId=705203&forumID=15&confID=1

Battery Holder

http://www.paddleplanner.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=2146

ColoradoMike  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, July 14, 2015 10:59:14 PM(UTC)


I have had good luck with the Deeper fishfinder. https://buydeeper.com/deeper

It is the size of a tenis ball and uses your smart phone as a screen. I put me into lake trout on Agnes last year.

It only last 4 hrs on a charge, but can be recharged by a usb battery pack or solar charger.

smutzy2u  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:30:32 PM(UTC)


I've been bringing up a fishfinder for 10 years and have been using the Humminbird piranah 2 or 3 searies. It's B&W and has 8 AA batteries, the transducer wraps up into it, and lasts for 10 days or more depending upon use, it does the job quite well. I'm not sure if they still make it or not. I did a quick search and did not see the one I have, the current model on the humminbird website uses a 12V battery and is portable, but not as light and portable as mine.

Agreed with MagicPaddler, B&W's have much long battery life.

trs

AmateurHour  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 7, 2016 9:45:08 AM(UTC)


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A coworker found a Humminbird 130 (click freshwater if you need to) in his basement. It sounds pretty close to smutzy2u's Piranha with B&W display, AA batteries, etc., and appears to have a good rep online. He has no idea how much to ask for a price. The new version looks like $175 and up. Anyone here have an idea?

Will  
#8 Posted : Friday, June 10, 2016 6:05:05 PM(UTC)


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I use a pirahna max 175 pt by hummingbird.  It runs less than $200 at most sporting good stores.  It has a rechargable 12 volt battery that is kinda hefty in weight.  We only fish hard 2 or 3 days of a week long trip and I haven't had it run out of juice yet.  It is reall good at giving depths.  The only time it will typically pick up fish is when you hit a school.  We have found some reefs where we wouldn't have thought to look.  It has helped us with walleye dinner a few times, so we overlook the weight.  Generally the portable (canoe) fishfinders are good at depths.  Find a drop off or reef and fish will be there.  We also look for creeks that flow into lakes. 

matt13  
#9 Posted : Thursday, December 29, 2016 4:37:34 PM(UTC)


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I tried out the Vexilar SP100 this summer and unfortunately had mixed results (especially in certain lakes within the BW).

I first tested this unit on the wisconsin river near my house and found the device to work flawlessly on the few trips I took with my Kayak. It marked depth/fish/structure well and when paired with my note3 (on airplane mode) the battery drain on my phone was tollerable (~10% per hour). I was excited to see this device in action up in the BWCA on our trip this summer. Within minutes of being on Sawbill Lake I had this thing in the water and found a  disturbing issue. I found that in certain lakes in water depth >20 ft that the device would stutter while reading the bottom thereby providing an unreadable depth. Now, I'm not sure if the unit I had was defective, or if this is an issue with the stained water of the lakes up north. I did notice that the unit did a better job at some lakes vs others, for example on trail and beth lakes (shallower lakes) the unit worked flawlessly allowing us to map nearly the entire bottom of the lake by canoeing a few passes back and forth (when combined with the navionics chartplotting app - I had a free trial).  But for other lakes (Sawbill, Cherokee, Frost, Hub, Phoebe) the device would serve better as a floating anchor as it would stutter unreadable depths with no bottom 75%-100% of the time..

When I got home I contacted vexilar as I hoped I had a defective unit and could replace it for a new one. When I talked to customer support they were unsympathetic to my issues and offered to provide no assistance short of me sending it in at my own cost and having them take a look. I instead sent it back to Amazon as it was within the warranty period and got my refund.

Pros:
Size and Weight of unit (if you already have a smartphone that travels with you)
Rechargable through USB
Wireless connectivity
Software bundled with Navionics app provided chartmapping functionality that worked surprisingly well

Cons:
Only works well in shallow water (or unstained water)
If there are any waves the device will tip back and forth providing inaccuracies (while trolling or sitting still)
You have to pay to bundle with chartplotting features of Navionics app (outside of the free trial)
 

With all this being said I'm still a fan of vexilar's attempt with this product. I'm personally attempting to get away from all traditional battery devices and move to Micro-USB rechargable devices for my trips up north. This allows me to take just one single power brick and a solar panel, and I'm set for any amount of time up there. I already used my phone for a camera and GPS device so it made sense to convert my fish finder to using my phone as well. If I don't find any better solutions I'm still thinking about trying out Vexilar's SP200 or SP300 up there for 2017 if I don't find any better solutions.

 

I'm curious if anyone else has had a chance to test any similar more "portable" phone devices such as Deeper, iBobber, or FishHunter. We do troll close to 50% of our fishing trips so I'd prefer that the unit works well for this as well. I do have a Lowrance X-4 that I could take up there with the purchase of an additional transducer, but then I'd also need to convert it into a portable device (which would then consume regular expensive batteries again). I'm also curious if I could build a portable power pack (need MagicPaddler's assistance on this one) for my X-4 that is rechargable through my 12W solar panel or my power brick.

 Any ideas prior to the 2017 fishing opener would be appreciated!

Edited by user Thursday, December 29, 2016 4:46:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

MagicPaddler  
#10 Posted : Friday, December 30, 2016 7:40:08 AM(UTC)


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LidyDipper
I assume you are wanting a rechargeable bank to run 12v devices. I think one of the best battery technologies available is the lithium Ion and the 18650 is the most popular. It is the power source for everything from E-sigs to Tesla cars. They put out the majority of their power between 3 and 4 volts. If they are over discharged they are ruined. If they are over charged they are ruined and may catch fire. If they are over heated they catch fire. With all that fire stuff said most of us carry one of these Lithium Ion batteries in our pocket (cell phone) and I don’t personally know anyone who has had one catch fire. To use these batteries without consequences they must have over discharge protection and over charge protection and over current protection. There are 3 common way this protection is provided.
1: The device that uses the batteries has built in protection. (Fish detectors don’t)
2: The battery bank has protection. (Requires selecting the correct board and wiring the circuit board to the bank with wires going to each end of all batteries. This may be beyond the safe ability of not electronic technicians because small connections and the requirements that it be tested after assembly.
This kind of thing
http://www.ebay.com/itm/...552ea:g:XbwAAOSwZJBYBb-j )
3: Purchase individual batteries with built in overcharge/over discharge/ current protection. (They cost more and do not fit many of the readymade battery holders. They are the least efficient in that some energy is loosed on each protection circuit.)
With all that GOOD news there are lots of counterfeit batteries out there so only buy brands that you can get some test data on. The counterfeit batteries does not only apply to Lithium Ion, NiCad and NiMH are also frequently counterfeit.
With all that said I think the best bang for your buck is the Li-ion in the 18650 case.
Much of the data I use comes from this site.
http://lygte-info.dk/rev...20Protected%203400mAh%20(Green)%20UK.html
for the Panasonic NCR18650B Protected 3400mAh button top.
http://lygte-info.dk/rev...ndividualTest%20UK.html.
For many more batteries.
If you put 3 of these 3400 mAh batteries in series the voltage will drop to 9.9 V after you have used 3000 mAh. If your detector draws 100 mA and will operate down to 9.9 V you could get 30 hours out of a full charge.
Do a ebay search for “18650 protected” . You will see better priced and higher capacity batteries than Panasonic (REMEMBER WHAT I SAID ABOUT COUNTRFEIT). Now do a ebay search for “18650 panasonic protected” You will see a list of batteries that will do your job. You need to decide if you want button top or flat top depending on how you plan on mounting them. I like the button top because I mount them end to end in a piece of ½ inch plastic electrical conduit $3.00 at Menards.
So now you want to charge them also. Don’t plan on charging them in series. They need to be taken out of the holder and charged in parallel or one at a time. Maybe just buy another set of batteries and charge them at home. There are usb chargers that will down convert 12 volts to 5 volts which would work as a charger. Some of the units waste the extra voltage. A good one will have a down converter which will have 90-95% power efficient (Volts times amps in = .90 times volts times amps out).

Edited by user Friday, December 30, 2016 7:46:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: links do not work

thanks 1 user thanked MagicPaddler for this useful post.
matt13 on 12/30/2016(UTC)
matt13  
#11 Posted : Friday, December 30, 2016 2:22:00 PM(UTC)


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Was thanked: 2 time(s) in 2 post(s)

Originally Posted by: MagicPaddler Go to Quoted Post

LidyDipper
I assume you are wanting a rechargeable bank to run 12v devices. I think one of the best battery technologies available is the lithium Ion and the 18650 is the most popular. It is the power source for everything from E-sigs to Tesla cars. They put out the majority of their power between 3 and 4 volts. If they are over discharged they are ruined. If they are over charged they are ruined and may catch fire. If they are over heated they catch fire. With all that fire stuff said most of us carry one of these Lithium Ion batteries in our pocket (cell phone) and I don’t personally know anyone who has had one catch fire. To use these batteries without consequences they must have over discharge protection and over charge protection and over current protection. There are 3 common way this protection is provided.
1: The device that uses the batteries has built in protection. (Fish detectors don’t)
2: The battery bank has protection. (Requires selecting the correct board and wiring the circuit board to the bank with wires going to each end of all batteries. This may be beyond the safe ability of not electronic technicians because small connections and the requirements that it be tested after assembly.
This kind of thing
http://www.ebay.com/itm/...552ea:g:XbwAAOSwZJBYBb-j )
3: Purchase individual batteries with built in overcharge/over discharge/ current protection. (They cost more and do not fit many of the readymade battery holders. They are the least efficient in that some energy is loosed on each protection circuit.)
With all that GOOD news there are lots of counterfeit batteries out there so only buy brands that you can get some test data on. The counterfeit batteries does not only apply to Lithium Ion, NiCad and NiMH are also frequently counterfeit.
With all that said I think the best bang for your buck is the Li-ion in the 18650 case.
Much of the data I use comes from this site.
http://lygte-info.dk/rev...20Protected%203400mAh%20(Green)%20UK.html
for the Panasonic NCR18650B Protected 3400mAh button top.
http://lygte-info.dk/rev...ndividualTest%20UK.html.
For many more batteries.
If you put 3 of these 3400 mAh batteries in series the voltage will drop to 9.9 V after you have used 3000 mAh. If your detector draws 100 mA and will operate down to 9.9 V you could get 30 hours out of a full charge.
Do a ebay search for “18650 protected” . You will see better priced and higher capacity batteries than Panasonic (REMEMBER WHAT I SAID ABOUT COUNTRFEIT). Now do a ebay search for “18650 panasonic protected” You will see a list of batteries that will do your job. You need to decide if you want button top or flat top depending on how you plan on mounting them. I like the button top because I mount them end to end in a piece of ½ inch plastic electrical conduit $3.00 at Menards.
So now you want to charge them also. Don’t plan on charging them in series. They need to be taken out of the holder and charged in parallel or one at a time. Maybe just buy another set of batteries and charge them at home. There are usb chargers that will down convert 12 volts to 5 volts which would work as a charger. Some of the units waste the extra voltage. A good one will have a down converter which will have 90-95% power efficient (Volts times amps in = .90 times volts times amps out).

Thanks! This is some good battery info MP. After some checks on ebay the batteries are less expesive than I was thinking and this seems like a good solution if I just stick with my old X-4.

Have you made any battery holders which are portable vs mounted in the boat? I've seen your most recent Ikea battery holder (which I have to admit the price is right), but I'd lake to be able to take mine back and forth from my kayak to my canoe as well...

MagicPaddler  
#12 Posted : Friday, December 30, 2016 3:21:03 PM(UTC)


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The Ikea holder holds AA batteries the 18650 are 18mm across and 650mm long or about that without protection or button top. If I can get a picture up you can see what I made. The end caps are PVC caps I put a plug in them and then drilled them to be a slip fit on the pipe but it would work well without the plug.  The pipe came from the electrical department at Menards.  It comes in 4 ft lengths I think it is plastic conduit and it is very light.  I use the clips on the left bought from McMaster-Carr but the Beckson 1&1/4 will work but the holder slips around it them.  The Beckson package lists several sizes available and the 1” would work well. I mount a set of clips in each boat and just pull the battery holder out and go snap it in the other boat. 

 


 

matt13  
#13 Posted : Monday, January 9, 2017 10:08:15 PM(UTC)


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Originally Posted by: MagicPaddler Go to Quoted Post

The Ikea holder holds AA batteries the 18650 are 18mm across and 650mm long or about that without protection or button top. If I can get a picture up you can see what I made. The end caps are PVC caps I put a plug in them and then drilled them to be a slip fit on the pipe but it would work well without the plug.  The pipe came from the electrical department at Menards.  It comes in 4 ft lengths I think it is plastic conduit and it is very light.  I use the clips on the left bought from McMaster-Carr but the Beckson 1&1/4 will work but the holder slips around it them.  The Beckson package lists several sizes available and the 1” would work well. I mount a set of clips in each boat and just pull the battery holder out and go snap it in the other boat. 

Thanks! I like the design and am looking forward to building a similar power-pack. Two questions:

  1. Any chance I can get a close-up picture of the inside and outside of the pvc end caps? When you say "I put a plug in them and then drilled them to be a slip fit on the pipe", I was a little unclear on what the term "plug" referred to and how that worked. 
  2. Would it be possible to use a flat-top style 18650 battery (vs button top) using this same design? Maybe using some sort of metal spring type of contraption in between the batteries. 

MagicPaddler  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, January 10, 2017 6:37:22 AM(UTC)


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I will answer the last question first because it is easier. I accidently bought flattop batteries. If you just put them end to end they do not make reliable connection. I added a button. I took double sided foam tape and cut out a circle a little smaller than the diameter of the battery. Then I used a hand held paper punch to punch a hole in the middle. This made a washer out of double sided foam tape which I stuck to the + end of the batteries. Don’t remove the backing from the tape you only want it to stick on one side. I then put a 4-40 nut in the hole in the washer. The tape holds the nut in place and the holder holds pressure on it to make contact. Although this has worked for me it adds extra contact points and the possibility the nuts will come loose.

I took a PVC Cap
https://www.lowes.com/pd...a-PVC-Sch-40-Cap/3133057 Cap
and glued a Plug in it.
https://www.lowes.com/pd...-PVC-Sch-40-Plug/3373020 Plug
The links take you to the pictures that may be the incorrect size.
It is now a piece of round PVC that can be drilled out to have a slip fit on the pipe. I have access to a lathe so it is easy to drill a hole in the center of something round. It will be difficult to drill the hole without a lathes.
If you do not have access to a lathe just use the caps without the plug. They will be a loose fit. Wrap the ends of the pipe with about 4 wraps of electrical tape.
Had to go try using electrical tape to make sure it would work and it did but the tape is not slick making the cap bind on the pipe a little. I tore Duct tape into a ½ inch strip and used it and duct tape worked much better.
Have fun and tell us what works.
thanks 1 user thanked MagicPaddler for this useful post.
matt13 on 1/10/2017(UTC)
matt13  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:13:09 AM(UTC)


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Originally Posted by: MagicPaddler Go to Quoted Post
I will answer the last question first because it is easier. I accidently bought flattop batteries. If you just put them end to end they do not make reliable connection. I added a button. I took double sided foam tape and cut out a circle a little smaller than the diameter of the battery. Then I used a hand held paper punch to punch a hole in the middle. This made a washer out of double sided foam tape which I stuck to the + end of the batteries. Don’t remove the backing from the tape you only want it to stick on one side. I then put a 4-40 nut in the hole in the washer. The tape holds the nut in place and the holder holds pressure on it to make contact. Although this has worked for me it adds extra contact points and the possibility the nuts will come loose.

This made my day  I already have other devices which use the flat-top design so having all 18650's of the same type will be beneficial to me.

Originally Posted by: MagicPaddler Go to Quoted Post

If you do not have access to a lathe just use the caps without the plug. They will be a loose fit. Wrap the ends of the pipe with about 4 wraps of electrical tape.
Had to go try using electrical tape to make sure it would work and it did but the tape is not slick making the cap bind on the pipe a little. I tore Duct tape into a ½ inch strip and used it and duct tape worked much better.
Have fun and tell us what works.

I do not have access to a lathe, so I'll go with the taping option and let you know how it goes. Thanks again!

MagicPaddler  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, January 10, 2017 1:34:23 PM(UTC)


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Do your 18650’s have the built in protection?
matt13  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, January 10, 2017 9:05:55 PM(UTC)


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Originally Posted by: MagicPaddler Go to Quoted Post
Do your 18650’s have the built in protection?

Yes - My other two batteries are both protected 3350mAh. I'm planning to buy an additional 4 pack of protected green panasonic 3400's as well.

MagicPaddler  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 16, 2017 8:47:55 AM(UTC)


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I found something that I think will work better for the ends of the battery holder for the 18650 batteries. Menards have LEG TIPS and the 1 inch fits well. They will be in the section with cane tips. They are vinyl and come in white and black. They should have a washer on both sides to help support the connector.
I have also am testing a newer fish detector and it has newer power supply technology. On the old detectors the higher the voltage the more current they drew. On the new detector the higher the voltage in the operating range (10 to 18 volts) the less current they draw. So with the old technology the lower the voltage while still in the range where the detector worked gave you the best battery life. With the new technology it does not matter that much if the voltage is a little higher. With the old technology the best hours of operations per battery was achieved with 3 batteries in series. With the new technology the best hours of operations is achieved with 4 batteries in series.
matt13  
#19 Posted : Saturday, February 25, 2017 11:04:15 PM(UTC)


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Originally Posted by: MagicPaddler Go to Quoted Post

I use the clips on the left bought from McMaster-Carr but the Beckson 1&1/4 will work but the holder slips around it them.  The Beckson package lists several sizes available and the 1” would work well. I mount a set of clips in each boat and just pull the battery holder out and go snap it in the other boat. 


 

I finally got out to Menards today and bought the supplies for the new battery holder. I was able to find everything except the style of clips you mention above. Any suggestions on which department within the hardware store to find these or similar types of clips? I found this style on McMaster-Carr, but not sure on the durability (and I really don't want to order 50 of them).

 

So far everything fits together well. Once I have everything completed, I'll post a picture and a breakdown of costs.

MagicPaddler  
#20 Posted : Sunday, February 26, 2017 6:21:02 AM(UTC)


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Mcmaster-Carr part number 1171A72 costs 1.76 each + shipping. Look through there on line catalog you may find other things that make an order worthwhile. If you have more than one boat buy a set for each boat. The Beckson clips look almost like they came out of the same mold. Beckson makes many sizes and I think that the 1 inch would be the best fit. Many places sell Beckson clips at about $5 a set + shipping including Ebay which has better shipping rates than some other places. Defender .com has them (# 756680CLP100 ) and they have good prices for small pulleys for making a bear hanging kit like the Ronstan 20 Series.
Looking forward to seeing the pictures.
thanks 1 user thanked MagicPaddler for this useful post.
matt13 on 2/26/2017(UTC)
matt13  
#21 Posted : Friday, March 3, 2017 9:14:57 PM(UTC)


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Here's a picture of the battery pack. Works great! The tube and end-caps are 3/4 of an inch in size and the diameter of the tubing seems perfectly suited for the 18650s (very little wiggle room). The PVC end-caps were a bit snug at first so I used some sandpaper on the ends of the tube to make a better fit. Altogether it was $12 at Merards (plus the costs of the mounts). I'll provide some stats after I run a few tests with the battery pack. I've got a 4th battery so I'll be testing that assembly as well to see how much it increases the hrs of operation.  

MagicPaddler  
#22 Posted : Saturday, March 4, 2017 5:49:53 AM(UTC)


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That looks very similar to one of the ones I made. I made one out of PVC pipe and like yours and had the same problem with the end caps sticking. I got it to work by making it a looser fit like you did. While looking for an easier to make holder I found a different pipe and end caps that make a lighter holder and it is easier to make. When you get ready to make a holder for 4 batteries I would suggest you go to Manards plumbing department and get ¾ inch flexible water pipe part number 689-9881. It sells for under $3. For a 4ft length. It will work with the end caps you already have or I use vinyl LEG TIPS found in the section with cane tips.
I find it satisfying to make something like you did knowing it will work better than anything on the market. Thanks for posting the picture.
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